View topic - Babbitt verses insert bearings.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:17 pm 
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I am wondering does anyone have any feedback on replacement insert bearings in place of Babbitt bearings on a rebuild? I think I am close to a rebuild and looking for any help/suggestions/opinions.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Model A guys do it all the time. But I've not heard of any DBs.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:26 pm 
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thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:57 am 
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I doubt it. Housings for inserts are machined with a notch to locate the inserts and prevent them from rotating. Housings for poured bearings generally have pock marks or some other means of anchoring the babbitt. To use inserts in model A's they must machine the block and either the rods are machined or replaced with aftermarket ones made for the inserts.
Inserts require that the crank journals be machined to specific size increments for proper oil clearance. With poured bearings, the journals can be machined to whatever size they clean up at and the bearings can be bored to match the journals.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:15 pm 
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I had my DA6 engine completely rebuilt recently. New .060 over pistons.
FYI there are 3 cam bearings, 6 rod bearings, and 7 main bearings and all are Babbit. Not sure for your engine. Costs could be $6,000 + or - for complete rebuild.
With this investment you should have block and head verified with at a good machine shop for cracks. My first block had a crack in the back of the water jacket.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:32 pm 
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yes that is what I have been hearing. Ouch!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:47 am 
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If and when i comes to repairing cracks, stitching pins work well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq0wfU4 ... -STITCHINC.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:21 am 
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Dodge would have been insert type bearings almost from the start. They are thicker on the older models, but are replaceable like newer ones, and would have been line bored in place to match the crank on the early cars. What has not been asked, is what year are you working with and are you asking prior to pulling the engine down?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:47 pm 
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in the doc posted here
http://www.dodgebrothersclub.org/phpbbf ... ?f=4&t=544
They are babbitt


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:17 am 
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Sorry I can't see that link. While yes Model A guys do re-machine the block for insert bearings, that is a different kettle of fish.
Without knowing what year you are asking about, the shell type bearings that may have been originally used are a lot thicker than just poured bearings in the Model A block/cap. I am thinking that the Dodge type would normally have had a bronze shell that the Babbitt would have been poured on from examples of that type bearing I have seen from other makes. The shell was placed in the block/cap and then bored to size. The Model A using direct pour, so the hole in block/cap was much smaller than if they had used the shell type.
You may have direct poured bearings, I have read about that being done on other engines that had shell type originally. So the hole in the block/cap maybe already too large for insert bearings now. Unlike today's insert bearings, the Babbitt was thicker, allowing some of the grit in the oil to penetrate the surface instead of scratching the crank.
Yes I have a 1920 Dodge, just have not pulled the engine down so am basing my information on both working on Ford Model A's and 1928 Chevrolet engine that I did pull down.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:28 am 
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Sorry the link got chopped. And I can not stop it.

But the description is that the rod bearings are babbitt cast and the crank bearings are bronze backed babbitt lined.

thanks for the input


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:52 pm 
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Thanks for that information, but now leads to a question that was not in your original post, are you talking rods or mains?
If the rods, there is a post on one of the two Dodge Brothers Facebook pages that show the shell type bearing that had just been poured. In the MIM, 1914 to 1927, talks about when renewing the rod big end bearing, to make sure they are fully seated in the rod. So the same thing as mains may come into play, the bore in the rods may be too large to use the type of bearing you are thinking about?
Because of the thin babbitt coating on modern type insert bearings, and this comes up when people ask about doing the same with Ford Model A's, what about keeping the oil clean? It is the micron size partials that do the damage. While changing the oil often, will help, between changes there could still be a lot that gets in.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/dodgebros/ (Dodge Brothers Club page)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DodgeBrothersMotorCars/

As a PS, I would also add that modern insert type bearings are not really designed for a splash lubrication system, they are designed for pressurized oil feed. Non pressurized, on startup, you are relying on that thin film of oil before things get moving around in the crankcase. Babbitt is way more forgiving.

Not trying to say not to do it, just offering a different view point.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:54 am 
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I appreciate the input thanks


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